Laminin: God’s Cross-Shaped Glue
[UPDATED: A reply from one of my offended family and my counter follow after the jump...]
My family keeps me in their mailing lists when they send out the various internet flotsam that hits their Inbox. I used to ask, please please please don’t spam me, but to no avail. Now I’ve taken to just reply-to-all-ing whenever I get these things. If you can’t beat ‘em, spam ‘em, I suppose.
Anyway, this was the latest religious spam I got, followed by my Radical Reply:
He (Louie) was talking about how inconceivably BIG our God is…how He spoke the universe into being…how He breathes stars out of His mouth that are huge raging balls of fire…etc. etc. Then He went on to speak of how this star-breathing, universe creating God ALSO knitted our human bodies together with amazing detail and wonder. At this point I am LOVING it (fascinating from a medical standpoint, you know.) …and I was remembering how I was constantly amazed during medical school as I learned more and more about God’s handiwork. I remember so many times thinking…’How can ANYONE deny that a Creator did all of this???’
Louie went on to talk about how we can trust that the God who created all this, also has the power to hold it all together when things seem to be falling apart…how our loving Creator is also our sustainer.
And then I lost my breath.
And it wasn’t because I was running on my treadmill, either.
It was because he started talking about laminin.
I knew about laminin. Here is how wikipedia describes them: ‘Laminins are a family of proteins that are an integral part of the structural scaffolding of basement membranes in almost every animal tissue.’ You see….laminins are what hold us together …LITERALLY. They are cell adhesion molecules. They are what holds one cell of our bodies to the next cell. Without them, we would literally fall apart. And I knew all this already. But what I didn’t know is what laminin LOOKED LIKE.
But now I do. And I have thought about it a thousand times since (already)…. Here is what the structure of laminin looks like…AND THIS IS NOT a ‘Christian portrayal’ of it….if you look up laminin in any scientific/medical piece of literature, this is what you will see…
Now tell me that our God is not the coolest!!!
Amazing.
The glue that holds us together….ALL of us…
Y’know, I looked at that laminin protein for a while and I think you’ve got the wrong god. The protein looks a whole lot more like the caduceus wielded by Hermes, God of Travelers, in the way that the serpent-like chains wrap around the staff. While laminin is important for cell structure, DNA is the code that makes us what we are, and its structure is another double-helix, like the caduceus. It really makes you marvel at how the Hermes, the God of Boundaries, extends to the very boundaries of our cells!
Then I spent a little more time and discovered the protein called porin. Porins are the proteins that allow for diffusion of molecules across cell membranes. They are the very mechanism by which our cells receive nourishment! Now wouldn’t you know it, but the porin looks just like the triquetta of Celtic paganism. Yet another expression in creation of how the power of three San Francisco witches feed all of us.
Now whatever you do, don’t let the Muslims know that the molecules in your silver crosses are shaped liked crescents! — “R”R
I got a response from one of my cousins:
give it a rest, Russ. just because you don’t believe doesn’t mean I can’t.
Which I couldn’t let pass without another Radical Retort….
But ******, I’m not the one clogging people’s Inboxes with spam. I’m not sending out screeds against Christianity, I’m replying to screeds for Christianity that are sent unrequested to my computer. And you should ask yourself how strong your belief really is if my silly replies elicit such a response.
No one is denying you a belief that the entire universe was designed by an external intelligence so infinite and thorough that he would structure the entire system of organic chemistry around the same shape that later he knew Imperial Romans would use for torture executions. You’ll find I am a stalwart supporter of your First Amendment right to believe such things, and to paraphrase what Thomas Jefferson once said, your belief in such things neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
However, that same First Amendment means that when I read something silly, I have the right to mock it. Think of me as your god’s special test of your faith. You know me as family, you know me to be a good and loving person, so how could I be so wrong about the most important thing in your world? How can I sail blithely through life, mocking believers, when an eternity of hellfire and damnation await me in fifty years or less?
Do you pray for my soul? Are you saddened to know that I will burn in Hell, or do you think God has a special miraculous plan for me? And what of the billions on Earth who do not believe in the salvation through Christ? Do their damned souls make you weep at night?
Look, here’s the way I see things — No atheist, Muslim, Jew, Hindi, Buddhist, Zoroastrian, Wiccan, Pagan, Satanist, Scientologist, Baha’i, Jainist, Shinto, or aboriginal shaman has ever knocked on my door peddling the idea that I was worthless in the eyes of their Creator unless I agreed with their philosophy. Only Christians do this to me. Only Christians send mass-blast emails to everyone they know assuming they will enjoy it, not stopping to wonder whether such religious conversation might be considered rude or unwelcomed by the recipient.
The funny thing is that you Christians are blind to it. Re-read that piece you sent me. Peppered with phrases like “our God” (you know, not the stinky false god of *those* people). There’s a kind of arrogance to Christianity that just assumes everyone else is Christian and if you’re not, well screw you if you’re offended, because we’re right and God built the whole universe just for us. I just don’t let it slide anymore.
I had a couple of missionaries come to my door to tell me about Jesus. You’d think that in North America, what with all the cable shows, AM radio stations, megachurches, Christmas carols, hotel bibles, politicians, and well-meaning folks with stickers on their cars, that everyone would have at least heard of Jesus. So why the missionaries? To strong-arm those of us supposedly “on the fence”? So first I play ignorant (”Jesus who? Christ? Never heard of him…”) and then as they tell me that the entire universe was created by an infinite sky wizard for a particular species he created that he loves so much that he must send 99.998% of them to eternal torture and agony unless they telepathically pledge allegiance to the reanimated zombie corpse of a two-millennia-dead ancient Judean troublemaker who was born of a virgin and had the powers of transmutation, healing, reincarnation, and levitation, yet couldn’t escape a pack of Roman guards, and it all says so in the book the sky wizard telepathically dictated to Iron Age Hebrew shepherds… well, I just ask a lot of questions and watch them try to spin a logical consistent tale from all that. It’s endlessly entertaining.
Finally, I guess what insults my intelligence most is the way Christians will scan through a science text and see a cross-shaped protein as proof of God, when the actual science that helped mankind understand that protein disproves much of what is held to be fact by most Christians (”intelligent” design, great floods wiping out all but Noah’s critters, earth’s rotation stopping during the battle at Jericho, a human walking on water and rising from dead bodily into the sky, transmutation of water to ethyl alcohol, etc.)Â Using a computer on the internet to discuss Biblical “proofs” is kind of like using a telescope to see Apollo’s sun chariot.
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about the cross/serpent thing..actually originated before Greek mythology..u see Numbers 21. 6-9. ” And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.” BUT then the children of israel ended up making it a god (Nehushtan) and worshiped it which of course was BAD (see 2 Kings 18:4 ) in addition a number of other religious groups also made it a god. its interesting that the serpent does still have similar meaning as in Moses days. Today it is still a symbol of healing. and Jesus made reference to it (John 3:14-15) “And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ” Christ Jesus became that serpent that was wrapped around the cross.
As it says 1Peter2: 24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed. (See we can also get healing still by looking to Jesus becoming SIN (serpent) ON the tree (staff) so that we can be healed. I could find more scriptures from Gen to Rev. and i welcome any discussions nicolpears@yahoo.com
Are you here to save me? Seriously? Do you even read this blog?
First off, before we discuss your book, I need some verification of the author’s credentials. Please have God send me a notarized copy of his curriculum vitae.
Then I need some scientifically verifiable evidence of various claims made in the book, including, but not limited to: earth’s rotation being stopped to facilitate warfare, forty days of enough rainfall to cover the globe, oil being only 6,000 or so years old, a man living three days in the belly of a fish, flesh converted to salt, sticks turning into snakes, fossil remains of giants and cockatrice, reanimated three-day corpses levitating into space, transmutation of water to alcohol, and existence of plants before there was light to feed them.
I welcome any reasonable discussions, but if all you’ve got requires me to agree to the terms of your book, it won’t be very reasonable.
Hello there you can call me Mrs Jackson and just would like to leave a comment about your statement about the laminin being similar to the cadeus…I thought the exact same thing. It resembles the symbol for health. Its interesting how different people have different interpretations about something that is inside our body whatever we may think it looks like!
You are right, why believe something you can’t prove. I don’t know why I would leave a comment except for the fact that I have been consumed with thoughts of my own belief system after reading some of your writings.
Ordinary, that is how I describe myself. I’m no preacher, can’t quote scripture , I’m very reserved in sharing my testimony with anyone, and I am not at church every time the door is open. I was raised in a Nazarene church which I read you are familiar with. In my town when I was growing up none of my friends knew what a Nazarene was. All I knew was I had a lot of rules, you can’t wear pants, makeup, or cut your hair. (most Nazarene church’s today don’t have these rules anymore) I struggled most of my teen years in bondage because I never felt I could be a Christian because I couldn’t follow their rules. I remember praying my parents would let me wear pants because I hated being so different at school. I guess that prayer was answered but probably not in a way my parents wanted. Actually my brother answered it by promising my parents he would quit smoking weed if they would let me wear pants. I kinda doubt he did but my prayer was answered anyway.
So, I asked myself why would you respond to someone who is definitely a better writer than you and can present his case stronger than I ever could. And I decided you are right I nor anyone else will ever convince you that God exists. I can’t explain how “I” know in any way or form that you would understand, just as you would never be able to explain to a person who has been blind from birth all the colors of a rainbow. Everything you could tell them about it would never make sense because they could never prove you right or wrong. They could never believe because they will always be blind except that they had a miracle and their vision restored . You see my friend you are that blind person and the only way I know that is because I once was blind until the miracle of salvation opened my eyes to know why I believe. So, what can I say to make you believe…..Nothing. Unfortunately you can’t believe because that is what you choose. That is what we call free will. No one can come to God except through Jesus and he has to call you. He does not beg and plead and the more you push him away the harder it is to even hear him call you. So anyone who wants to know if He exists has come blindly in faith and ask that He will reveal Himself . Then you have to do one of the hardest things in the world….acknowledge you are a sinner and need His forgiveness and salvation and believe that God came in human form as Jesus and took your sin and died so you could have life. Is it easy after that? Nope. Even Christians sin, that is why He gave us the bible. It is only to show us that we are not perfect and could never follow the rules of the ten commandments. It shows us that Jesus paid the price for our sin and salvation is a gift, we can never be or do good enough to earn it. That was when I learned it was not about rules but relationship. Do I believe every word in the bible is true? Of course I do, you may ask why or how. I know I ask. But I do know that the bible says it is the inspired word of God written by fallible men, inspired by an infallible God. If anything in the bible is not true then how can we believe anything in it? We can’t…therefore we believe it is all true. The scripture does tell us to test everything, 1 Thessalonians 5 (I can only quote that because it was in my daily bible reading for today, http://www.oneononewithgod.com). If you want to know the truth (as a Christian ) about creation you have to look to for answers with Christian scientists. They can use science to prove it could have happened just like the bible said just as non-Christian scientists can use science to prove it couldn’t have happened that way. I suggest “ googling “ Ken Ham. He is the founder of the Creation Museum near Cincinnati,
http://www.answersingenesis.org.
Funny, that is how I found your site. I “googled” Laminin after a friend sent me one of those forwarded emails (I can’t stand the ones that say you HAVE to forward if you believe in God or something like that) from http://www.godutube.com, that had the preacher talking about laminin and how it is the glue that holds everything together. I wanted to see what it looked like on the internet and I saw your site and decided to take a look at it from your point of view. It made me realize you can’t convince anyone of anything they don’t choose to believe. I think you make a great argument that justifies you being an atheist and I also believe if one day YOU ever decided you wanted to know if God exists then you would also probably be the best “Radical” Christian just as you are an atheist. Because you do what you do best…write from “your point of view”. Now maybe I can get some rest because God hasn’t let off me and I’m hoping expressing my feelings will at least give me peace of mind. Be Blessed.
I agree Mrs Jackson! it is interesting how these symbols all relate..i like Cheryl was just googling to see if there was any merit to the laminins fwd. I didn’t think there was anything convincing…I am just glad i got all my bodyparts..and it really doesn’t matter whether they look like a cross or even a hammer.
I actually found the whole thing so much fun to study…I would have never did this study if Russ didn’t put it up there.
I mean just to see how in Genesis you have serpent probably on the tree (deceiving eve)..the bible didn’t specify where the serpent was. ..so I am not sure if he was on the tree.
However in the Torah /old testament it states-
Deuteronomy 21:23 his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the LORD your God gives you as an inheritance.
Then in Numbers 21. 6-9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.”
Then 2Kings 18:..then children of israel ended up making it a god (Nehushtan) and worshipping in it. Which was wrong and pagan.
Then in the new testament…Jesus prophesying that he would be that serpent. John 3:14-15
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. ” Christ Jesus became that serpent that was wrapped
Then in Galatians 3:13, the apostle Paul..showing again that Jesus became the serpent.
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree
Then the apostle Peter again shows us that Jesus became the SERPENT ON THE TREE..THE CURSE ..As it says 1Peter2: 24 who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed. (referencing to (Torah/old testament Isaiah 53:5..which says by His strips you are healed). ..and I know there are more scriptures as it only took me moments to grab these from the bible.
AMAZING…I love doing studies like this..another one I was shown..was how Jesus fulfilled the Passover feast…little details regarding when the lamb inspected and bigger ones when the lamb was killed are absolutely parallel from Genesis to Revelations. I LOVE DOING STUDIES LIKE THIS.
AMAZING… what you could be accomplishing studying actual science instead.
AMAZING…why people go on and on like this is a Christian website. Did someone actually put their “testimony” on here? This is a site for logic and sense, people! Get a clue
Russ, you present yourself as an educated individual. The funny thing is that you sound extremely UNEDUCATED. I mean, science is far from proving that God doesn’t exist. Make fun of Christians all you want, but you have no facts to stand on.
Is “Intelligent Design” an improbable theory? If so, Darwinian evolution is as well. Major gaps in the fossil record fail to “support” the idea of a “common ancestor” (purported by most Darwinists), and you nor anyone else can produce empirical evidence to support your “rebellious” beliefs. Truth be told, you just don’t want to be held accountable for your actions.
Party on! It’s your life to live and your life to give…think about it.
Confuciusness
I have a little something for you, Mr. C: “For God did not send his son into the world to judge (or condemn) the world, but that the world might be saved through him.” Pardon, Russ, a little side note here to our zealous friend.
My grandmother came for a visit the other day and she saw some literature I had from another religion. She proceeded to respond to it as “propaganda” and I said to her, “I’m not interested in debate, I’m interested in a family.” You telling the host of the website that he is believing wrong is helping no one but you. Condemning people for their beliefs is hypocritical because your saying you dont want Russ to judge you for yours. I believe it says in your book that we are not to debate, for debate brings division, but to find common ground with our fellow human being. Before you go spewing off judgment calls perhaps you should read what your Christ has to say.
Well, my first reaction was the caduceus. But if the cross is useful to Christians then so be it. I think that anti-Christian perspectives can be taken with a grain of salt, and a bridge constructed by the obvious represented by the caduceus, the staff of Moses, and other depictions of what is clearly a same message coming from many different sources. How dumb are we? How addicted to our own tiny range of perception?
How cool is reality (God), that it reaches us no matter what belief system we choose for ourselves?
These symbols have origins in understandings that modern ideologies can’t even conceive. Judgments are always based on limited perspective. Give it a rest. Forgive it. Do whatever it takes to get over your own judgment.
The cross is a symbol far older than Christian history, it was borrowed, it has a value based in an understanding of the the principles of life. Like modern physics and medicine is suggesting. Find out what it meant in an older context. You might be surprised at the congruity in Christian context, and you might be surprised at how it enriches your understanding of it’s meaning in a Christian context. You need to understand that content and context are not the same thing.
Three days in a tomb is not a unique idea to Christianity. Resurrection is not a unique idea to Christianity. Jesus underwent an initiation in a traditional sense. A tradition that didn’t originate with himself. yet he fulfill filled it. That was a personal thing, as it is with us all. Jesus verses the ego (the devil). Same ego, same devil we all make our decisions from, or we choose to make a better choice from a better representative, the Source that allows our every breath.. That doesn’t take away from Christian tradition, nor does it take away from any other tradition. Every 0ther tradition makes the same statement.
That doesn’t sit right with most Christians, but it will with some. And either way is okay. It’s just the way it is. Everyone has a time line that they follow to completion, and where you are in your own judgment and discomfort with everything outside of you is relative to that. I’ll tell you straight up, nothing exists or occurs, that doesn’t emanate from God. There is no other cause of anything. I think that should be acceptable to Christians, though they might still argue that there’s a ‘deception’ clause. I would ask then, where does the deception come from?
So, how you going? Does deception originate in your own personal agenda, or in some agent outside of you that causes you that conflict?
Hey Russ.
I’m a strong believer in God and u have a point about how Christians are but not all of them are like that. If you don’t believe in God then i respect your beliefs. I wont try to bombard you with a whole bunch of Jesus stuff screaming you need to be saved and all that. If you don’t believe then you don’t believe and thats fine. Yeah a lot of Christians go around telling everyone that they will go to Hell and all that crap but that’s not how we all are. So I respect your beliefs and hope you respect mine.
July 28th Mrs Jackson this is not your mother’s kitchen this is the world wide web. If you don’t want to be told your wrong go back to your mothers kitchen. You zealots are often quick to misquote His word back to us. Think before you write. Russ, your operating from a very serious lack of information. Your wrong because your ignorant. It’s not that difficult to pick up a book and read. You should try it sometime. When you do, read something that is not of your point of veiw — it could cause you to grow. I would like some verifiable proof that your opinion is true— it’s certainly no substitute for true truth– a topic that would behove you to think about. One other point–it’s not only Christians that are spaming you. It’s interesting you blame them for it though.
LOL Wilfor your message was…hmm enlightening, shall I say? I know I feel the Jesus in this place! My mothers kitchen? Is that old-school terminology I’m not familiar with? Perhaps you should explain it to me since you obviously enjoy explaining things to us poor, ignorant sinners. As far as I know, the only salvation you’re responsible for is yours; and for your information, I am a Christian, but you wouldn’t know that, would you? Since you were so busy putting ME on blast for nothing. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, and everyone deserves respect for that opinion. You Christians think you’re so much better than everyone else, that you have “the truth.” What is the truth? Last time I looked it was to love your neighbor as yourself. I know I feel loved up in here with the knives I’m having to dodge. If you want to share about Jesus, do it in a place that welcomes such teaching. Did you not see the word “atheist” on the home page? In my world that means someone is not a Christian. I am a follower of Christ but I certainly will not stand by while Christians condemn people for their personal beliefs. Perhaps it you who should do the reading, my friend. As far as I know, Christ didn’t spend his time telling non-believers what jacked up, ignorant people they were.
Wow, what Bible have you been reading?
Jesus didn’t spend his entire life gagged inside a cave…
If you are a Christian, then you would have given your life to Jesus and would follow his teachings. I don’t remember him ever saying to keep our mouths shut. In fact, I think it’s more along the lines of- Go out into the world…
Kickintheface, refer back to my last post. Instead of concentrating on what didn’t Christ say, perhaps you should TAKE A LOOK AT THE FRONT PAGE OF THIS WEBSITE. THIS IS NOT A CHRISTIAN WEBSITE!!! I swear, Christians think they’re so above respecting their fellow human being they think they can trample on anyone’s beliefs that are not their own. Why is it in Christian chatrooms they can’t seem to talk about God to save their lives, but on a forum that is NOT designated for Christ, you people can’t stop talking about it. I am not saying to remain silent about your beliefs; I’m saying choose your arguments and choose your location. Every military leader knows if you choose the right locale, half the battle is won.
So what your saying is.. Try and save those who are already saved?.. I think the goal is to try and reach those who need it, not those who don’t. Jesus for instance, hung out with Prostitutes and tax collectors, not priests and vicars.
How did you get that out of my previous post? And your really not telling me anything I dont know; if you would like to discuss this topic in another forum, I would be more than happy to. My point is that this is not the proper locale to discuss things of this nature. I am trying to respect the administrator of this website (Russ Belville) but all Ive managed to do is stave off attacks from Christians since I first posted my original post. Cant we all just get along?
Unfortunately, because of sin, we can’t all get along. But sure, for the sake of the administrator, I’ll leave it alone (Though I’m sure there is a way for the admin to block people if he/she so chooses).
Hey listen, we’re family, right? But so are the other people in this forum. We’re all family; we’re all on this planet together, working with each other, elbow to elbow. Instead of letting sin separate us, we need to accept everyone, whether or not they are part of our religion. It might be a so-called “sinner” that God uses to create the cure for leukemia; it might be an atheist who encourages you not to give up when you’re on the edge. You see? We’re all family, whether or not we follow God. The first step is to love one another, to accept one another as we are. This is not watering down my faith; this is FULFILLING my faith.
Well unfortunately, such things as greed and selfishness prevent us from being perfect beings. I never said Christians are perfect, I said “because of sin, we can’t all get along”. I don’t care what religion you come from, Christians don’t always get along with other Christians. Would you die for me? Unless you are willing to give it all for a complete stranger, then we cannot be “one people”.
I dont believe I mentioned anything about perfection. And just because other people are greedy and selfish, does not mean we have to be. Don’t you see? Only through love can we break through things such as greed and selfishness. If we follow that example of Christ, as it says in Isaiah, “The nations will stream up to the mountain of the Lord.” We are that mountain, my friend. The church of Jesus Christ. In order for them to “stream up” this mountain cannot be level with the other mountains. We have to be different, weird, odd. Part of that is loving people who don’t deserve to be loved, and yes, be willing to give your life for another person.
We cannot let sin deter us from our purpose. “Sin” was just a detour my friend. It was not part of the plan, it is not part of who we are. We ADAPTED TO sin, because as human beings, we were meant to be perfect. I don’t hear a measure of hope in your tone, my friend. When Christ prayed in John (17?) he had a measure of hope for mankind, knowing they were his children. Let us not abandon the shores of hope just because it is not within sight.
Are you saying that it is possible for us to live in this tainted world and that everything will be peachy?
Okay…where are getting this stuff? Are you actually READING my posts? Im trying to play nice here…your sarcasm would be charming if you werent putting words into my mouth. The issue is this: this world was not MEANT to be tainted, as you so quaintly put it, it was meant to be perfect. Obviously things are not peachy, sweetheart, and if you dont mind me saying so you seem like a very ANGRY person…hehe okay, anyway, things are not all right at the moment, but the only way things will be is if we step out of religion and start loving people. Religion limits humanity and causes us to be narrow-minded. I love this world because God made it; I don’t love the things that HAPPEN in this world, but I know I have a promise from God’s word, that we humans are actually something special, the crown of creation as a matter of fact, and only through working together will we be perfect once again. We need to have faith in the human race, my friend, as impossible as that sounds. If you are a Christian, we need not be going at each other this way. We are family, not enemies.
Do you think Jesus put his beliefs aside when he was here? I am willing to love people as myself, but I will not tolerate rubbish when I hear it. The whole lovey thing doesn’t fly with me, and do you know why? Because it doesn’t work. Sure, with some people it does, but you cannot practice it with everybody. Some people need dicipline, some people need encouragement. You cannot cure the whole world with the antidote to ONE sickness, because there is a festering bucket of an assortment of sicknesses out there, and each must be dealt with accordingly.
Obviously the things I have been saying have upset you, because this feels like an attack rather than one brother (?) instructing a sister. I am sorry for whatever has happened to you to make you this angry with someone youve never even met, and Im sorry love has so little value for you. Love is not when someone pats you on the back says, “Its okay, sweetie, don’t worry about it.” Love is when you instruct someone in the right way, love is when you pull people out of the fire (Jude), love is what Christ did on the cross. Love is sacrifice. If that whole ‘lovey thing’ doesnt work with you then I dont know what you do with 1 Corinthians 13.
Wow you sure are reading a lot into my writing. Can you see the angry faces I’m making while I’m writing these words? I was just trying to respect your wishes and end this discussion on this poor persons forum, but you seem to want to get to my heart and find out why I am such a troubled soul. Don’t waste your time, I have no issues that God can’t help me sort out. Now please, can we finish this now? I have been trying to for a while now.
God bless
check out:
Lee Strobel – former athiest
Chip Ingram – former agnostic
The real issue is not whether the cross is in the human body as laminin, but whether or not Christ came wiht a human body and died on the cross. That is a fact in history. In addition the evidence that He rose from the dead is abundant. It is evident not so much by a molecular protein but by the miracle of transformed people that can be explained in no other way but by the presence of a living Savioir. I like the laminin thing, but I love more the Living Savior who has transformed my life.
I too stumbled upon this website when I googled to get further information on laminins and then googled “laminins God glue” to see what people might have to say about this email. My degree was in biochemistry and math though I’ve worked most of my career designing computer systems. I get these spam all the time from my family — generally political or religious. Normally, if they really irritate me because of the blatant propaganda or outright lies, I will reply respectfully, well… maybe a little disbelief in my tone that intelligent and educated people don’t employ their brains to see logical inconsistencies in what they spam me with. For this spam, though, while I considered responding, I’ve decided that it’s a pleasant idea for my family and why respond just to be argumentative? And heck, they’re “delving” into biochem — and I’ll get them on the next evolution argument.
BTW – regarding “intelligent design”, Richard Dawkins, for one, has written some excellent works, notably “The Blind Watchmaker”, that I think makes a great argument for the absence of intelligent design, i.e. we are what we are based on random changes that proved to be biologically useful — all well documented. Believe in God if you will. I do. But don’t mix theology and science. It just makes for very bad argument.
I think Christianity probably does have some merits in showing us how blid faith can be used to control , lie, manipulate and kill more people than any other faith in history.
Theres a wee it of irony there , given even that bad pagans of this world Christianity fought against – like tha Native Americans were that ones that were tortued / wiped out only to make way for the sort of fundamentalism thats crippled it.
I recently came across this page as a result of my desire to learn more about the supposedly cross-shaped protein called Laminin. I opened other sites to see for myself what it actually looks like. It was a cross, alright. A bent-looking cross at that. It appears to be flower-like under a microscope. a bowing (and sort of wilting) flower. It’s kind of sad how theists would jump at this find and declare it as an evidence of God (or Jesus) as a way to validate their faith and how they think THEY have THE truth or that their moral system is better than that of the atheists (or others who don’t share the same belief system as they do.) The shape of that protein does not prove anything. Theistic Christians might rejoice over this “good news” but did they even stop and think that their Jesus and their cross would not apply to those from other religions? It’s like their statements have an underlying message of “We are so right and They’re wrong! We made the right choice and we will be saved for sure because he is in us. We have proof of this in the form of a protein that is shaped like a cross.” I don’t know if they realize this but the symbol of the cross can also be found in ancient Egyptian civilization (the Ankh) and connected to the major gods of that time like Isis and Ra. T them, it represented eternal life. This existed in a period BEFORE the bible was written or conceived. Thousands of years before Moses supposedly wrote the book of Genesis. So yeah, that cross isn’t unique to the Christian religion. If someone should be celebrating, it should be the Ancient Egyptians.
God bless Google for leading me here! Maybe he does exist? hee hee. I too was sent Christian spam by the family — most likely in an effort to save me.
So Russ – any thoughts that this thread would last so long when you started? Good on ya’ buddy.
Honestly, I may not read here again – but certainly brightened the evening.
PS. I love how some Christians (above) call those of us who don’t believe in the jealous wrath of the Christian God and Jesus Christ “anti-Christian.” Rather than be negative, I’ll put a positive spin on it and say that I’m not so much anti-Christian as pro-Everythingelseoutthere. That way I’m for the majority instead of against the minority, and I get to stay positive instead of feeling so negative. By the way? What is it now… about 33% Christian out there? Mmmm. I may wait a while longer and see how this all turns out.
PSS. I don’t want to be made of crosses. Thanks to Indigo above, I’ll be thankful instead that I’m made of modified Ankhs!
Nice post Cheryl. Just a couple replies. Sadly, the “Christianity” most people on here speak of, and most people see, is a general term, suffering to people with “general” beliefs, which are really no beliefs at all, NOT referring to true followers of the Christ.
BUT, loving neighbors does not mean accepting their false beliefs as something good… just as we LOVE our children, but correct them when they are wrong. The Bible tells us to rebuke one another, but in a loving way, and I admit, many Christians are willing to rebuke, but have a hard time doing it in a loving way. But hey, we are not any better than you or anyone else, and make our share of dumb mistakes. I am just a sinner saved by the miraculous grace of an Almighty God.
To my Christian brothers and sisters, God never said abandon the truth in the name of love, but we are to follow His example…He gave us ALL a free will, and if someone can not accept the truth, be kind and move on
it is not what you say for you are right but the way you say it and your intentions while saying it… what is your goal? are your comments helping your family or u are so selfish that you just think about what you want and need?
And you took the time to post your retort, chuckle. I took the time to read it and respond, chuckle. No one will ever be able to convince you for the same reason you cannot convince them. They put their faith in something you chose not (intelligent design). You put your faith in something they choose not (primordial soup). You’d be surprised at how many “believers” do not take offence with you, I for one (despite my friendly jab). You desire truth and that is to be respected. To those references in the previous comments knocking the perception of the cross, the point was missed (or avoided). It’s not that it specifically looks like it under a microscope although in some pics it does and others not. It’s in the scientific drawings that many believers find hope or at least fascination. For me its fascination. I recognize that it cannot prove anything. Does it “prove” anything of itself? Of course not. Can it be disproved as meaning anything about God? Of course not. So the choice to believe or not remains as always, just as it should.
Oh by the way, when you get past all the creative words and references your argument is flawed in that you say science has disproved most of what Christians believe. This puts you at odd with many modern scientists, including some top astrophysicists and the like. If scientists can disagree on the existence of a supreme being, and they most certainly do, than the verdict must still be out among many who are admittedly much better equipped than you or I to argue that matter. Last I checked most scientists still revere Albert Einstein and he clearly believed in intelligent design….not that it proves anything, chuckle.
It just amazes me how, after reading these comments, I see so much hate and disregard for Christianity. No one should be trying to force anyone into any religion or belief. We are all individual with our ouw right to believe what we want. It doesn’t mean that some are better than others or that there is a master race, creed or religion. We as Christians have a strong HOPE and FAITH that what we believe is true just like anyone else. No one actually knows 100% that any of this is true. It cannot be proven either way beyond speculation. God’s Creation vs. Darwin’s Evolution will never be settled until the end of time…..which if you are a Darwinian will never happen and if you are a Christian it is very soon. It’s one thing to simply put an opinion on here but there is really no need to call names and insult someone just because you don’t see eye to eye with someone else. That’s the junk that causes hate crimes. We are and always have been “One Nation UNDER God” our forefathers didn’t ask your permission nor did they need it. They founded this very Nation on a set of moral principles that should be revered for just that. They were not forcing a religion on anyone, they were simply a group of immigrants from England looking for a new start and the freedom to have rights and practice religion…..the only thing that’s changed is US! Its amazing how easily offended grownups can be over a simple right or wrong debate….it’s not that simple, so why argue over it? is it worth it?
Holy crap people…. Really I think we should take some advice from Mark Twain.
“The mark of an educated mind is to entertain a thought without excepting it.”
Sometimes you need to leave your emotions at the door and discuss something with your head. Science is bound to this and religion should use more of it.